Popmilo: "My biggest dream is to program a good port of «Turrican» for Atari 8-bits"

June 07, 2024 • Updated: Mar 17, 2025 - 09:08 PM

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In an exclusive interview for Atariteca, Vladimir Janković, the prominent programmer of the Atari 8-bit scene, shares details about his passion for retro video games and the upcoming release of the game «Tony: Montezuma's Gold», for which he has been the main developer.

Vladimir "Popmilo" Janković is a passionate programmer in the Atari 8-bit scene, renowned for his creativity and ability to push the technical limits of these classic machines. Despite having no exposure to Atari 8-bit computers in his youth, he has become one of the most prolific members of the scene. His dedication to the community and love of retro gaming have led to several exciting projects, including "Monk", "Dark Keep", "The Warrior", "Double", "Blokz" and the upcoming "Tony: Montezuma's Gold".

First of all, we are curious. Why the nickname "Pop Milo"?
Ah, hahaha! He was an ancient warrior, monk and hero from my family's homeland of Montenegro, who fought against the Turks in the 19th century. He died in a suicide attack on an entire Turkish fortress. When I did something similar while playing an online shoot 'em up for the first time, I thought it would be a good nickname for me; and it stuck. Now I use it everywhere.

Tell us a little about yourself and how you got involved in the world of computing: your age, if you are married, have children, where you live and what you do.
I am 50 years old, married and have a daughter who loves playing retro games almost as much as I do. My first contact with video games was probably with the Defender and Galaxian arcade machines, and with computers, seeing Kokotoni Wilf and Chuckie Egg on a ZX Spectrum at some public event. It was love at first sight, as you can imagine.

What was your first computer and what made you start programming it?
My first computer was a Commodore 128 with a tape recorder. The lack of tapes with games on them (we had like two tapes with only a dozen games on them during the first year) meant that, out of boredom, we quickly started writing little BASIC programs, which was easy since computers of that time came with huge manuals with all possible information about the system. Soon, that wasn't enough, and we were lucky that the C128 had a built-in monitor with a good assembler. So I learned 6502 assembler from my older brother, who is a couple of years older than me. I was 12 at the time and already knew what hexadecimal and binary number systems were, how bits were converted into pixels, etc.

How did your relationship with Atari 8-bit computers begin?
That's a much more recent venture. I never had any contact with Atari in my hometown, nobody had one. I only saw a couple of ST computers later, when I went to university to study electronics. So a lot of time passed and I saw an old 800XL for sale and thought "hey, I never had that one, but it looks fun". The rest is history: I joined Atari forums (AtariOnline.pl, AtariAge, etc.), met some Atari nerds, started writing demos and games for that platform. That was 15 years ago, and I don't think I'll ever stop.

Do you still own an Atari 8-bit computer?
Yes, I have a couple of 800XLs with RAM expansion, SIO2PC adapters, etc. I also have a 2600 lying around, I just need to find it. My retro collection has gotten pretty big, as I have multiple versions of Spectrum, Commodore, Amiga, Oric Atmos, a CoCo Computer clone, even an Out Run 2 arcade cabinet.

"I spent a lot of time riding and saw an old 800XL for sale and thought 'hey, I've never owned that one, but it looks fun'. The rest is history."

How do you remember the Atari scene in Serbia when you were a new computer user?
Atari was primarily used for desktop publishing and music creation tasks. The MIDI interface and high-resolution black and white displays were perfect for that. The Atari ST system for those purposes was much cheaper at the time than any other technology available, such as PCs or Macintoshes.

What specific aspects of the Atari 8-bit community attracted you and encouraged your long-term involvement?
I guess it was the “room to grow”. The C64 scene at the time was huge and somewhat saturated. Lots of people were competing making demos, graphics, music and games. The Atari scene seemed to need more love. At first, I was only interested in the hardware capabilities and differences compared to the Commodore 8-bit computers. Then, I started hearing things like “Atari can’t do this” or “You should do it this way and no other way”. So I started doing things my way and I think it’s going well. I made contact with a lot of cool people from both the Atari and Commodore scenes; and believe me, there are people who like both.

What led you to develop games for Atari?
Fun. I've always programmed small games and demos on Commodore, but I never published anything. I think my desire to program games really intensified when I saw the first advertisement for the ABBUC competition. Something about competing with other programmers and doing it all in a limited time made me try harder.
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What could you tell us about the technical challenges you encountered when you started programming for the Atari 8-bit computers?
The only tools I knew were the MADS assembler and the Win800 emulator. It was different from programming on a real Atari, but it was still difficult. It was only when programs like the Altirra emulator and the Wudsn IDE came out that I started programming a lot more. Later I discovered that I could use the Kickassembler compiler (for 6502 processors), and now I can't live without it.

What was the most difficult or challenging feature when developing your most appreciated projects?
Counting CPU cycles, ANTIC's DMA, making everything stable and using every free cycle for something useful. I used a technique that forces player sprites to repeat for a single horizontal scan line. So every cycle is important. Making it all work was difficult.

Can you share a memorable challenge you faced while learning 6502 assembler and how you overcame it?
Yeah, I didn't know anything. I was 12, we didn't even have a computer. My older brother, who was two years older than me, sat next to me and said, "Now I'm going to teach you assembly language for the 6502." I said, "No, I want to go outside and play!" But he was relentless, and a couple of months later, I could write my own code in a notebook, write down the hex codes, and it actually worked when we got a chance to type it into a friend's computer.

What strategies do you use to effectively manage limited resources (CPU cycles, memory) in your games?
For each project I have a memory map written in a spreadsheet, with each piece of memory assigned. I am a visual person and seeing the whole memory as a picture helps me understand the needs of the project.

Which of your projects do you like the most? And why?
"Monk," "Warriors" - there's a lot more you can do in 80x50x9 color mode. I wish I had more hours in each day. "Dark Keep" - the technology behind it is impressive; I just didn't have time to code all the features I planned for that game. What I've released is like 10% of what I plan to do with it. And the most important thing is that the engine supports a lot more colors than is normally possible.

What inspired you for that specific project?
Pico8's tutorial on how to make a RPG. Pico8 is awesome, I also want to make some sort of Pico8 game designer/IDE for Atari.

"The Atari 8-bit is missing a good isometric arcade adventure, good shooters in the style of "IO" or "R-Type.""

Do you have any future plans for «The Warriors»? We are missing fighting games on A8...
Yes. I already have graphics for entire streets, plus a couple of types of fighters. I just need time.

So, are you planning to create a “Dark Keep Deluxe” or “The Warriors 2”?
There are already two folders on my development drive called “Dark Keep 2” and “Warriors 2”.

What unique gameplay elements or innovations do you aim to introduce in your future projects for the Atari 8-bit?
I want to make a real-time strategy game, a 3D space simulator, and Freescape-like games for other 8-bit platforms (like Driller, Dark Side, etc.). The Atari 8-bit lacks a good isometric arcade adventure, good shooters in the style of IO (C64) or R-Type... My biggest dream is to code a game that looks like a good port of Turrican, with huge scrolling levels and big boss enemies.

Where did you get the inspiration for “Tony”?
It's all thanks to Rafal (Dudek) and his love for the original Atari game "Montezuma", plus all the Indiana Jones movies and love for the real-life Polish hero Tony Halik. When the suggestion to write such a game appeared on the Atariage forum, I just jumped at it and thought, "Oh, I want to program this."

It's strange, because when I talked to Rafał, he said that the whole idea and effort came from you...
I had seen some videos and graphics on Facebook about “Tony” that I liked because of its monochrome look, but nobody knew anything else about it… And one day Rafał complained in an AtariAge (forum) thread about how he couldn’t find a programmer for his game on Atari… I asked him what it was about, and he told me that his brother couldn’t do it because of lack of time; then another programmer started working on the project, but abandoned it “because it couldn’t be done”, etc. I said: “what can’t be done?”

It was like someone throwing a bone to a dog... You can't stop thinking about it. So Rafał said that nice big monochrome sprites, like in his design, couldn't be realized on the Atari 8-bit. I told him to send me some demo graphics and I'd see what could be done. Over the next few days, I programmed a small demo of Tony's sprite moving around the screen and a huge scrolling map for the test level. Let's just say that (Dudek) was so impressed that we started working on this project the next day.
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What happened to the port of “Wonder Boy”?
There were some "creative differences." Half of the team was discussing a possible technology change, the other half disagreed and we decided to stop collaboration on that project. The programmers kept their code, the designers kept their graphics. I guess a game like "Wonderboy" will come out someday. Maybe it won't be the same programmers and graphics artists, but it will appear in some way, shape or form. Maybe not on the pure 8-bit Atari, maybe it will be on the 7800 or VBXE, for example. Personally, I'm going to make a running and jumping fruit-gathering game, probably in GTIA 4x2 mode, just for fun.

Have you considered porting games from other platforms or systems to Atari?
Yes, always. C64 is difficult because it's hard to port the sprite technology. BBC seems more feasible, but most of the games I like have already been ported. And a couple that weren't are almost finished by some friends of mine ("Elite", "The Sentinel", for example). There are many Pico8 games that could be made on Atari. Also, just transferring the game idea is enough; there's no need to "port" games 1:1 as some people try...

Who has been your best collaborator on your projects?
Michael "Miker" Szpilowski from the AtariAge forums is one of the best POKEY musicians and very easy to work with. Basically, you tell him what you need and he makes it happen.

What games have inspired features or approaches in your own game development?
There have been some really good games coded over the years, I always try to learn from games like Yoomp!, Dimo's Quest, Atariblast, etc. I'm just a humble beginner compared to other coders in the Atari scene.

Are there any other programmers/coder you admire from the 8-bit scene (Atari or other platforms)?
There are a lot of good programmers out there. Just look at who takes the top spots in each ABBUC contest each year. Then add in some game programmers who released their stuff outside of the competitions, etc. “Yoomp!”, for example, is one of the top games on A8; also “Space Harrier,” etc.

What do you think about competitions like ABBUC, the Atari Awards or BASIC Ten Liners?
The best thing ever, it makes me want to make at least one game a year.

What are your all-time favorite Atari 8-bit games? Why?
“Yoomp!”, “Rescue on Fractalus,” “Star Raiders,” “Monk,” “Blokz,” “Double.” The first three are what Atari is all about. Fast, colorful arcade games with great gameplay, sound, and graphics. My games, on the other hand, are my own ideas that I hadn’t seen realized on an 8-bit platform, so I had to do them, and I’m very happy with the result. Of those three, “Monk” deserves a sequel, and I’ll definitely be working on that.

Is there any that you admire for its technical aspects or any one in particular?
The first three... “Yoomp!” has the best 3D tunnel routine; “RoF” has amazing fractal mountains that haven’t been done since; and “Star Raiders” has the best space shooting sound effects plus amazing 3D math.

Is there any Atari 8-bit game that you think is the best of all time?
There are a lot of those, but if I had to pick one, it would be Rescue on Fractalus. I'll never forget those fractal mountains and the fright I got the first time an alien jumped in front of my ship.

What are your impressions of the current Atari 8-bit scene?
Not bad. I'd say it's smaller than the C64 scene, we need more good programmers. One of my goals is to "fix that" by creating a nicer and easier to use game designer. Pico8 democratized game development in a way. I want to do the same on A8.

What is the main lesson you have spent programming for Atari 8-bit?
Never give up, do at least one small thing every day. It is impossible to make any kind of big plans, in my opinion, just take it easy and have fun.

We appreciate you taking the time to give us this interview. Is there anything else you would like to share with Atariteca users?
Life is short, have fun while you can.

✔ We thank Mariusz "Marbed" Bednarz, one of the testers of “Tony: Montezuma's Gold,” for providing us with the videos that accompany this interview.